Koch blocked

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I’m not necessarily an HK fanboy. I don’t believe that the sun shines out of their Teutonic fundaments and that every product out of the Fatherland is a shining monument to Germanic engineering. But, I do recognize that they make some stuff that is pretty darn good. For me, most notably, it’s their rifles.

Back in the old days if you wanted an HK-pattern rifle you got it from…HK. Around 1989 an import ban was put into place and the lovely HK 91, 93, and 94 guns were verboten. A few half-hearted rulebeater models were brought in but the pipeline pretty much slammed shut in ’89. There were a few clones on the market for the 91…Hesse Arms springs to mind, as well as one or two others. And, of course, the drunken monkeys at Century Arms tried their hand at it as well. They all uniformly sucked. If you wanted roller-delayed goodness you had to shell out the shekels for the real deal…when you could find one. And those prices did nothing but go up, up, up.

Nowadays it’s a slightly better story. There’s a decent G3/HK91 clone out there from PTR, a 93 clone that didn’t suck was brought out briefly by Century a couple years back, and PTR is now making MP5/HK94 variants. It’s not a bad time to be a fan of roller-delayed systems as long as you’re willing to live with the off-brands.

Years ago, I made the decison that, as for me and my house we shall wield the G3. While I like the FAL, and think the AR10 platform is probably the best choice these days for a .308, I’ve invested enough in guns and logistics to stick with the G3 pattern. No regrets there. Although were I to do it all over again, it would be AR10 for the ergonomics.

For years, I’ve been wanting a little 9mm carbine that could be highly portable but still throw a goodly amount of lead downrange. My first effort was to serendipitously acquire an Uzi carbine. A fine gun, no two ways about it. The only drawback was that it was heavy and not readily acceptable of things like optics or lights. Reliable as a rock, though. Straight blowback, so a bit clunky and heavy.

Next on the evolutionary highway was the CZ Evo. Same blowback system, half the weight, and accepts railed accessories. Also has a thriving aftermarket. If you want the ‘semi-auto subgun’ (oxymoron) experience but don’t want to shell out $1600+ for an MP5 clone, the Evo is a great gun.

Feeling experimental, I dipped a foot in the Ruger pool and picked up a couple of their takedown 9mm’s. The carbine is a handy little thing and I like it alot. Their takedown pistol, with an arm brace, is a very handy little thing that makes up into a tiny package. Again…straight blowback, so heavy spring ad heavy bolt.

Recently I sucked it up, opened my wallet, and bought an MP5 clone from PTR. I picked up a 9CT which is a pistol version of the regular MP5. With an arm brace attached it is a wonderfully comfortable, compact, and decidedly handy little carbine. I mean it just fits the hands perfectly and handles like a dream. And since it uses roller delayed instead of blowback, it can be lighter and less ‘ka-chunk’-y when you shoot it.

Drawbacks? Price. Here’s the part that I don’t understand – HK stuff is never, ever cheap (except for that brief window where G3 mags were $1). But even the cloned stuff is expensive. Case in point: I need MP5 magazines. Genuine steel HK mags are just north of about $80 each. Even polymer third-party mags come in at around $20-$25 each. Compare with Magpul mags for my Ruger and CZ that are only $14 ea. I’ve picked up some ETS mags, which get mixed reviews, and I just bought a bunch of Unity brand (Yugo) mags that also are basically advised to be kept as practice-rather-then-operational mags. For metal mags, I am told that MKE and Korean-made are the only real alternatives and even those arearound $50+ per mag.

And thats the one big drawback to the brute ruggedness and reliability of the HK system of firearms – the ridiculously expensive environment it creates. Scope mounts, slings, mags, spare parts, etc, etc….all wildly more expensive than almost any other platform. And thats not just the OEM stuff….even the third-party stuff is expensive.

So…if any of you fine humans have a source for decent MP5 metal mags at a price that won’t break the bank….help a brother out and let me know, hm? Or, if you used to have an HK/clone MP5 and you got rid of it but found a box of mags in your gun room, let me know and let’s see what we can work out.

 

17 thoughts on “Koch blocked”

  3. Gotta say, sir, that as a Canadian, reading this column has me simultaneously drooling at all the freedom, and cursing you & your 1st world problems roundly.
    I can’t imagine what it would be like to have these issues.
    God Bless America.

    Mike in Canada

    • God bless Canada too. Both nations need all the Providence we can get.

      I wonder if Canada regulates the non-receiver components like the receiver. If not, there’s always the home milling processes for the receiver. Just to think about, of course, not actually do.

      • It does not, at least not yet. The only thing that is regulated is the bit with the serial number (considered the ‘firearm’); everything else are accessories.
        Technically, therefore, should confiscation ever develop, the only part the gov’t is legally entitled to (‘morally’, we shall leave aside) is the bit with the serial number. All else belongs to the owner and is not part of the deal….
        Of course, this is all theoretical, for educational purposes.

  4. Back in the beginning, was the Garand. Then, as I got older, wiser, and had a family to defend, I started acquiring M14’s (the first two were actually M1A’s from SA that had many, many issues). But, I was able to get a couple of Fulton M14s, and the government would actually sell M14 magazines, new in the wrap, for a couple of bucks each.

    As the kids grew older, I got a few 5.56 rifles – Mini 14s, and then AR-15s. In the late 1990s CTD was selling brand new in the paper Aluminum 20 rnd mags for the G3 for 99-cents each, less if you bought a case of 300 from them. So, I got a case, and started looking for HK-91s, of which I lusted after since I first saw one, in the factory display case with all the accessories. Alas, it was several months salary or more then… And then the ban happened…

    But, the PTR-91 came around, and I bought a couple. And a couple of more. A bit heavy, but rugged as hell… I got a couple of FAL’s as well – safe queens, the both of them. No nation that went to war with the FAL kept them afterwards: The Brits last gasp was the Falklands, and handed the squaddies an SA-80 as they walked off the plane at Briz Norton. Not sure that was an improvement, but at least it wasn’t worse.

    Yet, I cannot leave well enough alone so I went AR-10, and am quite happy. Manual of Arms is the same as an AR-15, ergonomics are absolutely STELLAR, lots of options (toys to play with), etc. I have a couple of Tavors too, just to play with. But the AR-10 is the go-to, no doubt about it.

  5. I owned an HK-91 back in the early 80’s. Very reliable, but the trigger was not match grade quality to say the least. But I did win a local 2 gun match with it at the time so it worked well enough. I didn’t like the way it flung the brass a mile away, but they all seemed to land in a tidy little pile. Also the brass had that unwanted dent but hey this is nit pick stuff I’m aware.

    I’ve now got a SA Socom 16 which I really like. Compact, great stock trigger, excellent sights ( and can mount forward scope or red dot ) and excellent stock/cheek weld characteristics. That stock also could knock off a door knob or someone’s head for that matter and the rifle will still function. Try that with your AR-10 type.

    I soured a bit on H&K after reading their president at the time saying guys with FFL like me ( basically sold to friends and myself ) were “ basement bandits “ and since his guns were the Cadillac of the industry they should not be sold to the likes of moi. Arrogant prick ( like a lot of German CEO I would assume; ie; VW ).

    But Zero I do believe they make cool stuff, but as you point out the accessories and such are way overpriced. Same thing with FN.

  7. What would you recommend to someone who is looking to get something in this space, but doesn’t want to commit at the HK (or clone) level just yet? Ruger or CZ Evo? Something else? Just suck it up and go with a clone? I owned a CZ Evo carbine for a while, and liked it, but sold it because I felt that it just didn’t make sense as a carbine. I still have some magazines for it. I also owned a Ruger PC Carbine for a while and gave it to a sibling for the same reason. I liked it, but as a carbine, it just wasn’t working for me.

    • A 9mm AR gives you a certain amount of built-in legacy logistics and a familiar manual of arms.

      • That makes sense in terms of many parts and mags, assuming I go with a model that uses Glock pattern ones. I recall you considering an Angstadt arms. Is that what you would go with? I have no experience whatsoever with 9mm ARs. I need to do some research, but yep, and AR sounds like a good idea. Thanks CZ.

        • I have no experience with 9mm AR’s either. And although getting one that takes Glock mags seems logical, those magazines are double-stack/single-feed which is not optimal for guns that were designed to take double-stack/double-feed mags. In other words, if you got a 9mm AR that takes Glock mags, it might (key: might) be less reliable than the same style of gun but taking doible-feed mags. The original Colt 9mm AR’s, for example, take double feed mags.

          Colt would probably be a good choice. I hear good things about CMMG. But, really, you need to just jump on some gun forums and start checking around.

        • The Colt-pattern magazines are reasonably priced ($20) and widely available. Uzi magazines can also be easily converted, though they’re not as cheap and available as they used to be. At one point German-made MP-2 (Uzi) magazines were running less than $10 each.

          There are both dedicated lowers and drop-in magazine well adapters to use the Colt-pattern magazines.

          The biggest issue is ensuring that Part A from Company B will play nicely with Part C from Company D. There’s no standard official “AR-9” design on the market, so as with the AR-10 and its related designs one has to check that bolt groups, barrels, uppers and lowers are compatible with each other.

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