As you may recall, Remington went into bankruptcy a little while back and several of their subsidiary companies were picked up by other people. Most notably, Marlin was acquired by Ruger. I think this bodes extremely well for the continuation of the Marlin product line. However, I was so excited about Marlin becoming part of Ruger that I failed to see the forest for all the trees. To wit: Remington is out of business.
Or is it?
Remington, as I understand it, is now part of Vista Outdoors and they’ve begun the process of starting up the plant tog et back to making guns. But…I’ve seen this before in the gun industry… a company goes under, a group of investors (or a single investor) buys it up and thinks they’ll just pick up where things left off, and usually after a short while they go out of business. Examples? Hmmm…AMT (The AutoMag folks), Wildey, Lorcin/Bryco/Raven, at least half a dozen lower-tier AR manufacturers, etc.
The reason I was thinking about this was because if Remington is, in fact, no longer ‘a going concern’, then one of the staples of the survivalist’s armory, the 870, may be living on borrowed time.
Name two of the most common, most well regarded pump-action shotguns. You said Mossberg and Remington, right? Sure…FN and a couple other outfits make some quite nice pump guns but for probably 90% of the gun buying population, when they buy a pumpgun its either an 870 or a 500/590. Easy.
So, I’m curious if perhaps it’s time to recommend the 500/590 over the 870 simply on the basis of future availability. Certainly existing 870’s will have virtually all their needs met by third-party markets. Remington 870’s are like Ford 9N tractors…you can build one virtually from nothing but aftermarket parts and never use an original OEM part.
Personally, I’ve got enough 870’s tucked away to completely remove en entire taxon of waterfowl… the death of the 870 will be sad but effect me minimally. I know there are Chinese knockoffs of the 870 and yours works flawlessly, but anyone who buys a Chinese copy of an 870 with the idea it’s “just as good as” deserves what they get.
I suspect that Remington as an arms manufacturer might be a little ‘too big to fail’…with its long history, highly regarded (at least, up until a few years ago) product line of stalwart designs, and high aftermarket support, it would make sense for future owners/investors to try to keep some of the flagship guns like the 870 in production. But…who knows? These could be the same goobers that gave us the R51, RP9, and that crappy .380 they came out with.
As I think about it, I am getting more and more respect for Ruger. They’ve managed to run their business better than Colt, Remington, and Winchester if bankruptcies and sales of ownership are anything to go by.
Should be interesting to see what happens…I will definitely be watching to see what happens to Marlin under Ruger, but it’ll also be worth watching to see if the 870 continues to be on the market. (And hopefully with better QC than what was slipping out the doors a few years ago.)
An economics professor once asked his class ‘why is General Motors in business’? Most answered ‘to make cars’. No, it’s to make money. The purpose of being in business is to generate a return for it’s owners and investors and if GM could do that by making muffins then they would be making muffins instead of cars.
Remington may be the victim of the new owners stripping out the assets and leaving a smoking carcass behind. On the other hand the new owners may want to try and generate a profit when the previous management could not by making quality guns.
Things change, especially technology. Ruger moved some of it’s operation to Arizona to take advantage of lower taxes and a cheaper work force. CNC maching doesn’t require skilled gunsmiths only folks that know how to program and run a machine to produce a part within specs.
They also have branched out into casting operations, sportswear, golf clubs, etc. Ruger knows how to make money, Remington didn’t. Probably not that simple but the 870 and model 700 platforms may just be too expensive to make in order to compete in today’s market, just like the Savage 99 and Winchester pre-64 action. A business has to be able to predict and react to the market and if they can’t then they go under.
Ruger is my go to brand for quality, price and customer service. They seem to have the business savy to continue for many years.
Remington AMMUNITION is now owned by Vista Outdoos.
Remington arms
Remington arms is bought by Roundhill Group LLC
Which is currently facing a lawsuit from its acquisition of the company from the employee’s union
Well, isn’t that special.
Their choice is have a job, or not…
Remember PATCO?
I doubt any of us will see the end of the 870. Even if the new owners screw it up, the patent will be a asset that someone else buys so that they can make it. And on and on until someone gets it right.
And i STILL wont buy a Ruger (and sadly now, another Marlin) because of the knife still in my back from Bill Ruger. Yes, i know he is long dead and i hope he is suffering in whatever hell he sold himself out to.
Regarding Remington: “….and that crappy 380 they came out with.” Don’t know about their other products – but my older 870 was flawless. However, that “crappy” 380 you speak of, is a keeper, at least mine is. In my opinion, probably the best 380 on the market – and I’ve owned a couple. Lots of folks who’ve never owned one put them in the same category as all the other recent Remingtons..
Don’t have a RM380 but do own a R51 that the Commander vilifies. I agree version one was a total loser. But version 2 is very functional, slim, point ability is excellent and if you want a pistol with an alloy frame for a change, nice. Now I agree the field stripping and assembly procedure is not easily done. In fact the worst of any handgun ( and I own 12 ) I have, or have had. But hey nothing is perfect, haha. My other Remington products are a Yellow Jacket 597 .22 rifle and a Guide rifle 673 in .350 Remington magnum. They are both flawless in terms of quality and accuracy.
I also think their logo ( name ) is cool. But that only counts in normal times, not a SHTF scenario.
The R51 is harder to disassemble than the Ruger Mark I? That Mk I is the biggest pain to disassemble that I have.
Been looking for a used or new 870 for the last 6 months. Here in Michigan, nobody has any on display or for sale at the regular places you would expect they would be available. A friend finally found one at an estate for me. No gun shows here due to HHS rules.
Well as soon as the gun shows start back up you will find some good used ones. They should as soon as the recall against our four idiots in the executive officer is over and they are facing multiple charges.
You just reminded me. I need a new barrel for my 870.
I’m a 590 guy….but either will do, either are exceptionally reliable, and with a very few spares in storage will last for a few generations… And there are so many, you can usually find another.
The Euroshotties? Well, they’re good too, but in terms of parts availability and reliability?
As j mentioned earlier, the ammunition portion of Remington was sold to Vista Outdoors, but the core Remington Arms business was sold to the Roundhill Group. With only Vista (Speer, Federal, CCI and now Remington) and Winchester being the large ammunition makers left in the US, you can bet ammo prices will never again be as low as they were a year ago. But, Remington ammo quality should become much better over the next couple of years. Reliable Thunderbolt .22’s?!? That would be amazing…
Unfortunately not much is known about the Roundhill Group, but apparently it is a shell company for the same management team that drove Remington into the ground in the first place. They have already reneged on the union bankruptcy contracts with the old Remington employees, so they are already destroying any chance they had of bringing back the experienced personnel they had at the Ilion plant. The bankruptcy court papers were very detailed in protecting the Roundhill Group’s non-manufacturing assets like the art work and historical firearms loaned to various museums and galleries. Apparently they are more concerned with their pretties than with actually making guns. (Although I will freely admit, I would love to get my mitts on some of those pretties, myself!) Therefore, I think your fears of the end of Remington are justified– more due to the fact that the old incompetent management team is still in charge rather than Vista buying the ammo business.
Those pretties were hard assets…like the buildings and equipment. They had an immediate value.
I’ve shot bricks and bricks of Thunderbolts and I have a dud about once every 2 bricks. Their centerfire ammo is even better in my experience… Having said that, IIRC my only Remington gun is pre 1870…
I’d be happy if someone would just start making magazines for the 870DM.
Thay said, you make a great point about the 870 vs 500 situation.
For years I told people it was a matter of picking the one you could get a better deal on. I won’t encourage anyone to buy an 870 until we see how things shake out, regardless of the aftermarket support.
One problem Remington had was the people in charge started buying everything in sight. Marlin had purchased NEF/ H&R and Remington got those. Then they bought Para Ordnance and moved operations to the US.
Then they built a new ammo manufacturing facility in the Carolinas and enlarged the one in Arkasas.
Next they gave Killer Cumo idiot Governor of New York the middle digit and left New York. They purchased 600 acres of land near Huntsville Alabama and built a world class manufacturing facility. Another 160 acres was purchased South of Nashville Tennessee as the site for there new world headquarters.
They had also purchased DSArms and TAPCO.
The problem when all things are added together is they got to big to damn fast. Instead of growing at a steady measured even pace and learning to manage what they had after each acquisition and to manage wisely. They simply let things get away from them.
From what I have seen the Alabama facility is running. The ammo plants have been sold to Vista Outdoors.
I have no idea about TAPCO. It is part of the bankruptcy if it was sold I have no idea to whom.
I have two Remington 870s I have had for more then 40 years. Both have been converted to tactical shotguns. I have only had one problem in all that time. I was preparing to shoot a deer and when I pulled the trigger it went click not boom. Firing pin broke. After replacing that we were up an going.
I also have a Mossberg 590 Tactical shotgun chambered for all three lengths. The big issue I’ve had with Mossberg is a problem with double feeding. I had a Mossberg Squire from years back and you couldn’t use Federal shells in it. It would dump the entire magazine tube when you racked the slide. Winchester and Remington ammo worked fine. I’ve learned to rack the action back with authority in order to prevent a double feed. If the SHTF scenario presents itself I will have a Remington in my hands.
As far was to what the future holds for Remington. Unknown at this time. But as soon as the entire and from what I have heard very complicated bankruptcy is concluded Remington will still be around. Smith and Wesson went through equally tough times years back. One owner after another came and went till the company was finally bought by a firm that knew what they were doing. But for a time those of us who used Smith and Wesson thought that company was done for. Winchester likewise and Colt. So I think this is nothing new in the firearms business. It’s happened a lot over the last 40 year’s.
Alabama plant has been down for a while. Huntsville basically gave them the old chrysler complex to subsidize the move to AL. Lots of tax breaks too. Brother worked there and said it was the most mismanaged facility he had ever seen.
And don’t forget about AAC, they aquired that and ran it in the ground too.
I just saw yesterday that that plant was sold for $13 million. It might be another good while before the entire disposition is completed. There is more information on the current state of the bankruptcy.
It’s hard to keep track of everything Remington management bought.
I got on the TAPCO website yesterday. It hasn’t been updates since last year. To bad really. Remington made some of the best shotguns ever. My uncle had an 1100 he hunted with for years. Still using it when he passed. My dad finally broke down and bought a Remington pump 1187 and I’ve used mine for better then 40 years. Winchester went through a similar situation. I have an example of each pump shotgun Winchester made. Model 93, 97 and 12. They are great with the exception of the model 1893. Just wanted that to complete the set.
Well as soon as the gun shows start back up you will find some good used ones. They should as soon as the recall against our four idiots in the executive officer is over and they are facing multiple charges.
It’s probably ever good when a US company goes out, and especially a firearms company like historical Remington. We need good quality gun companies employing our people into the future so hopefully they get it together under new ownership. If that ownership is an investment group it may not be good. When I was working in building product sales we were a Formica distributor. Formica was acquired by an investment group, Cerberus, and they did not exactly build it into a powerhouse. Just kept it long enough to sell it later at a profit.
Good point about the 870 becoming history. When ‘Survival Arsenal’ articles are written, the shotgun model choice is usually very short. “Get an 870 – 500 – 590 in 12 gauge and you are good to go” is often the advice preached. I’m sure the price on any 870 has or will jump up substantially.
Remington, tits-up? This really isn’t a surprise to me considering the quality of newer Remington firearms I’ve been looking at. I miss the days when “American made” meant something.
Does “Made In America” still even stand for quality or is it just a tag line / marketing gimmick to get patriots buying the product?
I have my own thoughts on this.
Mostly the second thing. Throw “Patriot”, “American”, or “Liberty” into the name of your product and watch well meaning people people spend money on it.
Rebrand the HiPoint as the “American Patriot Liberty-9” and watch the sales go through the roof.
Patriotism is the last refuge of….a mediocre product.
Just a thought. Many years ago I had a gunsmith friend of mine order me one of every spring, pin and clip that might break, for each of my 870s. I have systematically done this for each of my guns. Parts could become impossible to get, especially if a company disappears.