Silver was down a bit the other day, and I had the treacherous combination of a few extra dollars in my pocket and a bit of impulse control issues. As a result, there’s another tube of silver dimes sitting in the safe.
Why? Well, thats an interesting question. Intellectually, I know that the odds of there being an event where greenbacks are worthless and we’re trading silver and gold like some sort of Roman market are pretty slim. And if the world collapses in on itself, its probably more likely that a box of .22 or a package of AA batts will get me more merchandise than silver or gold.
On the other hand…. we have plenty of episodes in the last 100 years where a national currency became worthless and people who had silver and gold were able to get the things they need.
Somewhere between “Current standard of living” and “Mad Max” is where the metals will be handy, in my opinion. Today, you can walk into a 7-11 and Apu might not take silver for a pack of Marlboros, and when the bombs fall and we’re all eating our children it is also likely that silver and gold won’t be very valued. But there’s that in-between….that point where the currency still has some worth but is rapidly becoming worthless, and there is the opportunity to purchase needed items. Thats the sweet spot, I think, for the use of metals.
There’s always the wag who thinks he’s being clever and original with some pithy line abou t how ‘if you can’t eat it it, shoot it, or live in it, it’s worthless’. And yet….he’s at the Kroger paying for his groceries with greenbacks that he can’t eat, shoot, or live in. Hmmm.
Now, I’m not saying that after the end of the world we’ll all be trading silver and gold for our transactions. I’m saying that its during the ride to the end of the world where the metals will have the most utility.
And…for some reason I cannot precisely express… I just feel better having some shiny metal on hand. So…a little more silver in the safe.
Have a question Commander. Maybe I’m not the only one that doesn’t know this but maybe we should all the same.
What are the actual dates of US coinage that is worth having as silver? I have been told 1964 and earlier and others have said it is in the 1940’s. Can you clarify this for us?
Thank you Sir,
Andy
1964 and earlier. Some coins after 1964 have some silver in them, but a much smaller percentage.
Andy, the 40s reference you may have heard applies to 1942 thru 1945 nickels. They are 35% silver. Dimes and above are as CZ said.
The mint-marks on the 42-45 “war” nickels are much larger, but are rather hard to come by other than a coin dealer.
Half dollars from 65-72 are 40% silver. As with all of the dimes, quarters and halves, look at the edge of the coin. Silver coins do not have the copper ‘sandwich’ in the middle.
Half dollars ’70 on are clad (no silver) unless special mint”silver proofs 90%)
You are correct – that was a typo on my part. Thanks for the correction.
coinflation.com
Curious as to what a tube of silver dimes would run. Also would an odd assortment of hack silver (broken and lost jewelry) be something to hang onto?
The rule of thumb is to multiply the current spot price of silver by 0.715 (which accounts for some wear – uncirculated US silver coinage is actually 0.7236). So if the spot price is $16.50 per ounce, 16.50 X 0.715 = 11.797 which we will round to 12 which is the face value multiplier. So a 1964 dime is worth 12 times it’s face value or $1.20, and a 1957 quarter is worth $3.00. Notice that a gallon of gas in 1957 was around 25 cents? The value of the silver didn’t go up – the value of the dollar went down!
The coin dealer will discount his purchase, so when you sell to him, he may offer you 11 times face value, and when he sells it to you, he might charge you 12.5 or 13 times face. Keep in mind that he has to draw a salary and pay the rent, heat and electric bill.
The entire point of the matter is don’t expect to become a millionaire because you put away a stash of silver. What you are doing is putting money in an insurance policy that is not dependent on another entity to be able to pay out. Do NOT put it into a safe deposit box. Don’t tell ANYBODY that you have it. A lawsuit or a divorce court can take everything that there is a record of. Buying it online and paying by credit card means that there is a record. Go to a coin store and buy it for cash, even if you have to pay a little more. When a dear friend was a little boy, he lived in the Czech Republic when the Russians invaded. His parents took him and his sister to the Austrian border where thousands of people tried to cross the border. Most waved fist-fulls of cash at the border guards to get across, which was completely ignored. His father gave a border guard a single gold earring which bought passage to the West for his family of four. They were allowed across the border empty handed – no belongings allowed. None of the people offering cash were allowed across, and remained behind as the iron curtain was closed.
Good info about the gold earring. But what about Sterling and fine silver jewelry?
Silver is silver is silver. US pre-1965 coinage (dimes quarters and halves) are 90% silver with 10% copper added for strength and durability. Sterling silver is sometimes marked 925 meaning that it is 92.5% silver. The British Pound Sterling was actually a pound (12 troy ounces or 16 ounces avoirdupois) of sterling silver. Fine silver is generally defined as 999 or 99.9% silver, but be forewarned that there are plenty of disreputable entities that mark silver jewelry unlawfully. The Chinese have been mass producing old US silver dollars that will stick to a magnet. My advice is to stick with “junk” US silver coins from 1964 or earlier.
Diversification is a very good thing. Constitutional silver is a good way to fractionalize your silver for transactions that don’t require a full American Eagle. I personally like Franklin and 1964 Kennedy Halves but the old Walkers are still beautiful coins. Dimes are very handy though since $1.40 in silver coinage equals an ounce of AG.
Regards
I buy bought a bunch of the beat up Kennedy silver dollars back in the early 2,000’s. Everyone seemed to know what they were worth and how much silver was in them without looking it up, so I figured they were a safe bet. Looks like I’d about triple my money if I sold them today, so not a bad way to stash away a little cash.
You are on the right track…the general population has no clue on how important 90% silver coins are. I work at one of the larger coin/ scrap shops in the midwest. Those silver coins will be priceless if shit hits the fan in our country. For those who don’t have a clue why, just do some research into countries that are having currency inflation issues….and it’s a bunch.
I work at at a large well known coin/scrap shop in the midwest. 90% silver coins are priceless when the shit hits.
Being prepared doesn’t mean that any prep that isn’t suitable for total collapse is worthless. Anyone who tries to tell you that is a fool. There are many scenarios that DON’T involve the total collapse of civilization, would be nearly as catastrophic, and are frankly more likely to occur.
You could be involved in a self defense shooting and have a half million in legal bills.
You could be in a car accident or have a sudden, debilitating illness that leaves you disabled for weeks or years.
How will you and yours deal with it? Will your family be able to pay your medical bills with bricks of .22? Or with cans of beans and rice?
Meanwhile, you have silver and other metals held back, and those have value.
It’s good to have a stock of precious metals around, especially in low denominations, i.e. junk silver. Buying/selling with barter goods (.22 ammo, booze, smokes etc.) works in serious emergencies, but bartering is a short term solution because haggling and dragging quantities of goods to trade are inconvenient.
Commander, your logic in having smaller denominations of silver is one I share. I’ve always thought that the values of the precious metals are relative to what the seller is selling and how bad you need it. For example, if you haven’t any food and are really hungry and the only coins you have are one-ounce 99.9 fine gold, do you really expect that the guy with the bread is going to give you change when you buy a loaf or two? Stick with the junk silver, it’s a good hedge.
Bought some too, today. My ‘benchmark’ is if I can get ASEs for ~$20/piece, that’s about right. The gears of time turn slowly, but for anyone keeping score, the nat’l debt has been doubling & re-doubling with each new president since Clinton. This may go on for several more administrations but it won’t go on forever. Just keep your head down, pay your monthly “insurance premium”, and keep on.
what is the average over spot price for silver conage/junk silver. it is on my short list to put some paper into coinage.
If I am not mistaken, the last market downturn back in 2011, silver was up to like $46 an ounce. If you had bought 20 10 oz bars from the Canadian mint for $120 each in 2006 and then sold in April 2011, just 5 years later, you would have turned your $2400 in silver into $9000 in cash, not a bad return. As with any investment though, timing is everything. If I were going to do silver investments, I would buy silver coins to collect and silver 10oz bars to speculate with, trying to buy when silver is below $13 and sell when it goes over $40.
The ‘trick’ of course, is figuring out if, when silver is $40/ounce and rising, is it just a ‘downturn’ or is this “the big one”, in which case you probably want to hold onto your silver even tighter.
It fits with my 3 levels theory. Short, medium and long term. I keep 4 months of local store bought foods we normally eat for short. The dreaded juice bottles with rice, elbow mac, sugar, lentils..etc….for medium (good I have found for 5-10 years in controlled storage) and Mountain House type commercial and 5 gal mylar pails for long term. Four months (working to six) of cash on hand in house, junk silver for medium term and barter goods for long term (clothing, tools, ammo, reading glasses, pint whiskey and construction materials- nails, screws, bolts etc. Covers me from short term (mostly likely a health problem), medium term economy and long term collapse (not as likely).
I’ll bet a roll of silver dimes & quarters would come in real handy in Venezuela , Zimbabwe or South Africa right now. You know, places with currency debasement due to sovereign debt. Not that we’ll ever see that here…..
Not to be overlooked, PM’s are a vehicle to transport wealth PAST the coming Dark Ages to your great, great, great grandchildren ( probably a few more “greats” in there. Topsoil only “grows” at one inch a century. If you leave it alone. Many areas will need the soil regenerated. Without surplus from better soil you cannot grow an economy )
You can find a list of the various coins with silver content and how much actual silver by weight here:
http://junksilvercoins.com/values
As mentioned, check the current spot price for the current ‘value’ of the coins.
You claim that precious metals are good for the “in-between time”. But there’s also the “after” time to consider. At some point, and hopefully we’ll all live through the worst of it to come out the other side, there will be a rebuilding. And when goods are somewhat plentiful again, precious metals might find their way into being a medium of exchange again for goods and services. Because it would be unlikely that a fiat currency would be re-established (or accepted) within a short period of time.
I believe it is also a good move to stash gold coins. They hold value over time and may be handy to have after an economic reset when things start to improve. Do your own research. A good site to look at precious metals over time is:
https://www.bullionvault.com/gold-price-chart.do
Each person has to decide what is best for them. Lynette Zang from ITM Trading puts out youtube presentations and explains the current economic situation with charts and good explanations. (I am not one of their customers). Mike Maloney’s Hidden Secrets of Money series is also worth your time.
Here’s an opinion that I’m sure will be unpopular: junk silver coins are garbage. I’m sorry, but anyone who thinks society-in-crisis will readily accept the notion that a pre-1964 coin has some greater value worth trading for is deluding themselves. I know it’s a huge trope of survivalist fiction and prepper blogs, but I just don’t see it happening.
Durable goods in scare supply will have value. Pure gold and pure silver (ASE, AGE, Maples, Krugerrands, etc.) will have value. The purity and weight of the precious metal is stamped right on the surface. There is no way I would trade a one ounce silver round for $1.50 in junk silver–now or in an emergency.
“There is no way I would trade a one ounce silver round for $1.50 in junk silver–now or in an emergency.”
On the other hand, I wold happily trade a 1 oz silver round for 1.09~ oz. of silver dimes. Its like spending ten $10 bills to get back eleven $10 bills.
“Junk” silver’s utility is when trading with folks that don’t know its value off-hand. It will be familiar to them and they will know that it contains intrinsic worth. The coins are also minted out of a coin grade alloy which is resistant to wear. It is for those qualities that I will have some on hand
We’re only two generations removed from a time in which millions of Europeans had to leave everything behind to flee Nazis, and later the communists. These were people who never could have predicted they’d become refugees.
If you have to leave everything you own behind, it’s much easier to tuck some gold or silver into your one suitcase than it is to bring along your valuable artwork or jewelry. Forget about trying to transport your collection of AA batteries or .22 lr.
Once you get to safety, that gold and silver is very easily converted to the currency of your new homeland.
Prepping isn’t just for the end of all things, and IMHO precious metals are handy for anything short of that. Gold has a much higher value, but it was taken from us in bad times before, so I cannot trust that it wouldn’t happen again. Silver hasn’t been treated that way, so is more reliable. If you’re getting gold, go for jewelry, chains and the like. Those are being used in South America and Africa right now for currency – cutting bits off for purchases.
Peter, you are sadly uninformed.
No one would trade a 1 ounce Eagle for $1.50 junk silver, cause — you know an Eagle is worth about $20.00.
Silver price is based on the spot price.
Educate yourself!
Gold and silver always has, and always will have value.
Thanks. I meant $1.50 face value of junk silver (or whatever face value is considered equivalent to one ounce of pure silver), but in either case my opinion remains the same.
If I am selling bread at the price of I silver dime and you have only a 1 oz gold coin, I am not going to deplete my silver giving you change, thus the larger denominations of gold will seek a much lower value in relation to goods and services, Today it is called the gold silver ratio and you will most likely find that it will change from silver at 85 : 1 gold back to a more historic 15 :1 ratio, you will see a net loss. Larger bars of each metal will most likely see similar losses. Small denominations of PM’s should perform better in the long run and prove the worth of paying a larger premium up front.
I have been following the troubles in Venezuela to get a read
on what might be coming our way. It has been years since the economic collapse began and the tremendous inflation rates have the little guys scrabbling for anything to convert to real money.
Any waste materials containing the smallest amounts of precious metals has value and is being sought after to keep them going.
The common man would love to have a small bag full of real US copper pennies. Its face value would exceed the amount of a months average wage of 2 USD a month. Its metal value is more.
I’m quite amazed even today on many of the facebook “prep” sites whenever someone even mentions getting some PM’s the level of anti-PM posts come out swinging as if you just offended their baby momma in front of whatever deity they worship. Too many of today’s “preppers” think that somehow the next SHTF event is going to be unlike any other in the history of the world where PM’s will be worthless and only guns, ammo and booze will be the only things of value. So you’re a fool to not only store those because ‘they’ are not going to trade a MRE or a pound of rice and beans for a 1oz of gold or silver coin. It’s refreshing to see a adult discussion about PMs. Thank you.
If I’m at starvation level, I will absolutely not trade a pound of rice away to gain an ounce of gold. If I’m not starving, and still have any hope at all of humanity restabilizing at some point in time, I’ll absolutely recognize the intrinsic value of precious metals.
Do not forget silver has over 40,000 industrial uses plus is one of the best antibiotic/antivirals known. Before chlorinated tap water was common a silver dollar was kept in the bottom of the drinking water pitcher to prevent water borne disease. A 90% silver coin a battery and sterile water can be used to make colloidal silver to treat infections or prevent disease.
Or to turn yourself blue.
https://www.today.com/health/real-life-blue-man-dies-after-heart-attack-stroke-4B11243410
I don’t want to turn blue!!! Can’t be the gray man if you’re blue!!!
You have fallen for the hype. You need about three car batteries and two PURE silver electrodes. You need 30 to 40 volts DC at 5-10 amperes. You need to draw an arc under the surface of distilled water with a tiny amount of washing soda (sodium carbonate) to make the water slightly basic to stabalize it. Colloidal silver is a golden brown color – the molecules are about 3-5 atoms apiece. Research Bredig’s arc method if you doubt me. If the method that you have read about tells you to use a couple of 9 volt batteries and to use salt in the water, you are making a weak silver chloride solution, and NOT colloidal silver. At no time do you want chlorine in your solution – table salt is sodium chloride; hence the chlorine. This is a pure hoax and I suggest you do a LOT more research before attempting to make the colloid. If you are successful, and your solution is crystal clear and a a beautiful golden color, then congratulations. You should NEVER consume any silver preparations internally. It should only be used to treat EXTERNAL infections. If swallowed, the metallic silver will react with the hydrochloric acid in the stomach to form silver chloride which does not have the antibacterial properties that you are looking for.
Argyria is the condition where your skin turns blue due to the internal consumption of silver or it’s salts like silver chloride. It is generally not dangerous but it is irreversible. There have been a few reported cases where people have suffered other afflictions as a result of argyria; YMMV.
I made a half a year of mortgage payments selling off silver when it was in the high $30 range. Stuff I had mostly bought at $7 to $10 per ounce. (I was being “screwed” by my jeweler who was only paying $29 per ounce of fine weight. Heh. No worries there, he made his, I made mine)
I am getting back to holding a fair amount of it now, and some gold.
Bit in addition to “Venezuela”, the other reason to buy minted PMs is that they DO fluctuate and when there is a big spoke, you can cash out pretty neatly.