I make jokes about HiPoint all the time, but the current issue of ‘Gun Tests’ has great reviews for their .40 carbine and their 9mm pistol. This interests me. My interest is in the 9mm pistol/carbine combo. They shot the .40 carbine against the Beretta Storm and an Oly .40 AR and the HiPoint outshot the both of them. In the pistol department, they had no failures of any kind except with Win. SXT which gave two FTF that were unable to be duplicated.
These might make them worthwhile additions for ‘disposable’ weapons caches. Dealer on the 9mm pistol is $99 and the carbine is $140. Now Im the first to agree that the HiPoint brand of firearms is found at finer drive-bys everywhere but if Gun Tests isn’t just blowing smoke then these might make decent firearms to vacuum seal and stuff in the truckbox, under the floor of your fishing cabin, or in an ammo can with some ammo for unexpected guests who need something better than a bayonet or baseball bat.
Although I haven’t heard much from people about the pistols, I have talked to people who have the carbines in 9mm and they all say theyre fun, reliable and pretty durable. About the same price as a 10/22.
Jeff Cooper, whose opinion is revered for reasons I still can’t quite fathom, as well as several other typewriter jockeys, say that pistol-caliber carbines have no place in the defensive arena. I disagree for a couple of reasons.
My two major points are that the engagement distances are most often going to be at less than 150 yards…most of us live in urban environs or places where most bad guys are going to be either right outside our doors, out in our driveways, or across the street at our neighbors house. The picking-off-bad-guys-at-600-yards thing is an exception.(Although its sure a nice option to have.)
At 150 yards your average FMJ has around 300 ft/lbs energy in .45 and 225 ft/lbs in 9mm. For perspective, figure that the average .38 Special generates around 250 ft/lbs at the muzzle. (And I agree that ft/lb of energy isn’t all the answer but it’s a start.)
In theory, this means that Oswald would have just as dead just as fast at 150 yards, hit with a .45 or 9mm carbine, as at point blank when Ruby shot him.
Secondly, and more importantly, ammunition logistics is massively streamlined and that has huge appeal to me. No need for two different types of ammo (.308 & .45, 9mm and .223, .40 and 7.62×39, etc) for your longarm and your pistol. Ammo is also lighter and takes up less space. Of course theres a trade off, that tradeoff is power…a .223 beats a .45 any day of the week at close range.
If the lights go out and Im sitting in Katrinaville I very much want my Glock and my AK, but if Im on US2 in the middle of nowhere and a truckfull of methmonsters starts following me Im going to be glad Ive got something under the seat even if it is just a hundred dollar powder-coated, straight blowback 10-rd 9mm that looks like a Soviet tractor-factory experiment in handgun manufacture.
Im sure someone is going to go in the other direction and say that rather than pistol caliber carbine, why not have carbine caliber pistol such as an AK or AR type pistol. Heres a couple reasons – portability, concealment, ease of use. Firing one in a hurry from concealment, one-handed, reasonably accurately, might be a stretch. Concealability is greatly reduced (I didn’t say eliminated, I said reduced…), and good luck doing mag changes and safety manipulation on that AK pistol with one hand. Again, those types of guns do have a place but I think theyre more a specialty weapon. (Although still great fun.)
The results of Gun Tests shooting the carbines in .40, were interesting. The HP either tied or won smallest average group using all three types of ammo (CorBon 140, Gold Dot 180, Rem. 155).
Since theyre relatively cheap, I might pick up the 9mm carbine to play with and see if I like it.
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Other gun stuff….
The FAL, Ive discovered, is picky about cartridge OAL. I was having some problems with reloads I had made up. The cartridges were not stripping off the magazine properly and the bolt would then ride over the case and bind things up. My first thought was it was the mags. Then I tried adjusting the gas regulator. Finally, I shot South African ball for comparison. No probs. It appears the reloads I was using were too short to support the front of the case on the trip into the chamber. The SA ammo mikes out at around 2.785” on the sample I have in hand…call it 2.800”. US stuff measures the same. So..I need to load up some rounds at the magic 2.800” inches (same length as my CZ boltgun magazine..hmmm) and see how that goes.
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One of the major networks is working on a worst-case bird flu disaster movie. And you thought ammo and freeze-drieds were hard to find now…
Should be an interesting and entertaining flick. I’ve always liked those sorts of movies. (Big surprise, right?)
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Big day of gun cleaning ahead of me. I need to clean SKS, AR and FAL. Cleaned the Glocks last night. The Glocks do seem a bit easier to clean than other pistols…the polygonal rifling seems to be a lot easier to clean up…makes sense, not a lot of ‘corners’ at the bottom of the grooves for crud to accumulate.
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A small bit of grocery shopping was accomplished today. I mounted a large write-n-wipe board on the door of the upright freezer and am keeping an in-n-out inventory of whats in there so I know at a glance how things are going…simply two columns that look like this:
Beef, ground, 1#, VS (vacuum sealed) – 19
Beef, steak, VS – 20
Chicken, breasts, indiv. VS –30
Pizza – 6
Etc, etc, etc. Makes it handy to know whats in there and what needs to be added to.
Anyway, the shopping was good. Canned vegetables were marked to $0.50/can (15.5 oz), canned pasta that the girlfriend likes was marked down as well (in the convenient pull-top cans), and a few other goodies. It’s a very satisfying thing to open your cupboards and see nice, neat, uniform rows of boxes, cans and jars staring back. Of course, I still need to pick up that little Honda generator to keep the freezer going in case of a short-term power failure…
I’ve always had a soft spot for inexpensive firearms. (as long as hey work to spec) Why yes, as a matter of fact I DID spend all day yesterday with a Wilson CQB on my hip… but that in no way means that I look down on economy options – just that I can afford better for certain purposes. 😉
Heck – if nothing else it’s a cheap hedge against future restrictions.
I do like your idea for matching caliber carbines. (it’s what I was thinking with P14 pistol & P14 based MecTec carbine idea) Do you know if the High Point pistols and carbines run the same mags? If so, I might have to pic up a pair and beat on them a little.
Have you seen the Kel Tech PLR-16? My brother bought one at the last gun show we went to, and he just loves it, especially since he got it all tricked out. It’s quite a bit more than you are talking about…$485 as compared to the $199 but it is .223 and uses AR mags.
AndyJ
It is not so much the energy of pistol caliber rounds fired from carbines at 150 yards, but accuracy and parabolicness of their trajectory. The belief seems to be that if you are going to use a longarm use one in a longarm caliber. That school of thought also believes that handgun rounds are anemic and only used because they are manageable in handguns. They believe that if you are going to buy a carbine length weapon you should use a carbine or longarm round.
You might look at the Keltech carbine in 9mm over the Highpoint as it is a bit better made and can use Glock 17 magazines which can be used in your Glocks. Of course then you are talking more money, which kind of defeats your point of buying the Highpoint, if I understand you correctly.
On another topic, (broken record time)it seems that whenever I hear about someone having function problems with an SKS it always seems to be a Yugo SKS. Is there ever any way to get all of the cosmoline out of that thing?
You might try a Chinese SKS instead. I own one and have fired several and they all seem to work reliably.
What type of FN do you have? Another issue is that you might need to clean out the gas port of your FN that goes from the barrel to the gas tube. This port is located just under the front sight and can get clogged with carbon and such over time. I experienced problems similar to what you describe and it turned out to be this.
the keltec (http://www.kel-tec.com/sub2000.html) can accept Glock magazines.
Apparently it comes in models that can accept Glock 19 magazines as well.
Still LOL
Truckful of methmonsters?
Are you sure you don’t live in East Texas?
Heh.
Crom
The best part about Hi-Point guns is that they have a no questions asked lifetime warranty. So if you troll a funshow and grab the cheapest, rattiest, nastiest, shot out, run over and beat to crap Hi-Point carbine in the auditorium, box it up and ship it to them, you’ll get a like new one back.
Of course, what you get back is a rifle sized firearm that shoots wimpy pistol cartridges. Old ‘n busted he may be, but I’m with the Col. on this one.
$99
cheap enough to throw away somewhere, than being caught later with an expensive pistol whose barrel will get you convicted for wasting a methmonster, a “protected species” in most states.
live long and free, forever. Wildflower 06
I don’t subscribe to the “A pistol is just to fight your way to your rifle” theory myself. That’s fine for the military, or even a LEO with a rifle in the cruiser, but I can’t legally carry a rifle with me everywhere I go. Heck, in Michigan I can’t even keep a rifle in the car unless I’m going to range or going hunting. Even then it has to be unloaded in the trunk.
For me, a pistol is most likely what I’m going to have available if I ever need a defensive firearm because I have a pistol on my person most of my waking hours. I don’t need the range and power of a rifle for home defense where I live. If it’s a home invasion, a pistol caliber carbine would give greater hit probabity then a pistol, so I see the utility there. I personally prefer a M-1 Carbine for that rile and I keep a loaded one handy by the bedside. The fact that my wife handles the carbine just fine is a bonus.