Following. Thank you for the reminder, and a refreshing of memories. Folks should also recall the on scene aftermath photograph of the atf bot standing proudly at an ash heap that had bones and cadavers sticking out of the debris. Yeah, that agent that was nominated to head the atf by Biden, but was thwarted by congress chads. It is an example, among many others, that is the impetus for folks buying bigly amounts of guns, ammo, and related kit, just because. Your tax refunding season is coming, what guns, ammo, or kit are you folks going to buy with your “overpaid” taxes that .gov held back from your pay checks? I am getting (more) shotguns for drones and biped walkers, and probably night vision kit for those after hours wet works duties. Stay armed and frosty.
Murdering children is never a defensive action, it is always an aggression. Adult human beings should always protect human children. This was pure evil.
What about a child coming towards you with a suicide vest on and an AK pointed at you? Yes, murder is always wrong, but killing in self defense is morally allowed.
Dan,
Answer the question from “I Dig Au”. I have met my fair share of veterans who never saw a day of combat. Chis Kyle actually had to kill a child in Iraq who was doing the very thing “I Dig Au” was referring to. While Chris Kyle, who I had the honor to meet just prior to his death is a known factor, you are not. So, before you call someone an armchair warrior, maybe do a self-check in the mirror. There is a difference in being a combat veteran and someone who just served 8 years in the Army.
I’m in the UK and still remember when it started the news keep saying how these people where hold up in a fort, then they showed it and my first thought was “It’s not much of a fort, I’ve seen better ones made by ten year olds, it’s made from wood on match is all it’ll need!”.
Adjust tinfoil hat: the three officers that were fired upon trying to breach the compound by automatic gunfire (from fellow officers that entered ahead of them) were reported to be former Clinton bodyguards that knew too much. Killed ATF agents were Conway Charles LeBleu, Todd McKeehan, Robert Williams, and Steven Willis.
Before the ATF allowed the FBI on site, the door which would have showed which way the fire came from disappeared… I don’t know what happened, but I know it wasn’t the official line.
They had a warrant only for David Koresh at the start. They had had the warrant for weeks if not months and most days he went jogging by himself or just a few people. Some day they even joined him in the run telling him they had just moved in next-door. The day before he went into town.They could have just picked him up at any time, but that would not have looked good on the invited TV news.
They invented the TV to film them going into this dangerous compound, but not one Ambulance, which is a little odd if it was that dangerous. The locals were filmed talking about the upcoming raid in the days before it, and the film was shown on TV after the raid, it seems everyone knew about it.
They hd the help of the military butt the only way the military can help in casrs like that is if it involves drugs, so they lied to the military about the reason they were going in and told them it was a drugs-lab.
What was seen on the Tv news was the people going into the front window and shooting into the building. What was not shown is the people going into the back window opposite the front window . The ones at the front window said they were being shot at by full-auto from submachine-guns from inside the building and returned fire on full-auto from their submachine-guns into the building. The ones at the back window said they were being shot at by full-auto from submachine-guns from inside the building and returned fire on full-auto from their submachine-guns into the building. The walls on the building were only single skin plywood.
No legal autopsies were ever done on the people who were shot dead at that time. In fact the feds raided the autopsies that were being done by Texas state Medical Examiner (forensic pathologist) and took the bodies at gunpoint. Under both the State Law and Federal law the autopsies had to be done by the State in that State. But the bodies were removed for the State illegally. The ME and the Doctors at the Hospital said the people were shot with 9mm ammunition of a type the Feds were known to use, that was never sold to the public.
There were sound recordings from inside the building and played on the news before the fire of people talking about how the first gunshots came from outside. They talked about how the bullet-holes in the right hand side of the steel front double door would show the shot the feds said came all from inside had in fact come from the outside. The doors were in plain view of reporters and TV cameras during the entire 51-day siege. Houston attorney Dick DeGuerin, who was sent by the Feds inside Mount Carmel during the siege, testified that all of the bullet holes he saw in the doors were on the right side, and all were made by incoming rounds. Sometime soon after the fire when still under federal guard and flodlight at night, someone walked onto the site and walked off with the right hand side door as a momento (This was the statement given in a press release). So they got onto the site and just walked off with a steel door around four feet wide and eight feet tall, over two hundred pounds in weight, with no one there noticing or getting it on film.
Between them the Branch Davidians were known to have had less firearms than CZ has in his basement. In fact, between them only taking the adults who by law could own fire are there, they had less than the Texas State average. The feds said that many were converted to full-auto but never backed this up by showing it in court. They showed many grenades, but as they had survived the fire they must have been inert, The Branch Davidians were known to make and sell paperweights you from inert grenades, as a way to earn money. The Texas Rangers reported that at least six items had been mislabeled and were actually 40 mm grenades or flash bang grenades from manufacturers who sold those models to the ATF or FBI exclusively.
The odds are there were illegal firearms there. Even if everything the Feds said was 100% truthful, why would this give them the right to fill a building they knew had many children in it and was lit by candles and kerosene (the Feds had cut the power off) with a gas know to be flammable then keep running a tank into it? On live TV the tank was seen to keep just driving backwards and forwards for some odd reason. It later came out that under the ground it was driving on, was a tornado shelter with people in it, including most of the children.
At a labor management conference once a professor from Cornell, Bernie Flaherty (Airborne ranger in WWII) said to us ‘…whatever you do to your opponent, they can do to you…’ I guess Timothy McVeigh proved him correct.
Will never forget that day watching the smoke from the parking lot where I worked.
Following. Thank you for the reminder, and a refreshing of memories. Folks should also recall the on scene aftermath photograph of the atf bot standing proudly at an ash heap that had bones and cadavers sticking out of the debris. Yeah, that agent that was nominated to head the atf by Biden, but was thwarted by congress chads. It is an example, among many others, that is the impetus for folks buying bigly amounts of guns, ammo, and related kit, just because. Your tax refunding season is coming, what guns, ammo, or kit are you folks going to buy with your “overpaid” taxes that .gov held back from your pay checks? I am getting (more) shotguns for drones and biped walkers, and probably night vision kit for those after hours wet works duties. Stay armed and frosty.
Don’t forget thermal imaging and a good laser.
Check, thanks. Good luck on the move as well.
Thanks Frosty… the move is complete.
Frosty,
Your claim that the photo was of David Chipman is simply not true. Whether he was suited to be head of ATF or not is another matter entirely.
OK, thanks for the correction. Posing like a zogbot in a photo op pose is kinda crass. Even for fed bois standards.
This was a good reminder for me to reread “Unintended Consequences” from the late great John Ross.
He put the book up on the net as a PDF for all to read.
Murdering children is never a defensive action, it is always an aggression. Adult human beings should always protect human children. This was pure evil.
What about a child coming towards you with a suicide vest on and an AK pointed at you? Yes, murder is always wrong, but killing in self defense is morally allowed.
You are an arm chair warrior. I spent 8 years in the US Army, you talk shit and watch Rambo. Fuck off.
You never answered my question.
Dan,
Answer the question from “I Dig Au”. I have met my fair share of veterans who never saw a day of combat. Chis Kyle actually had to kill a child in Iraq who was doing the very thing “I Dig Au” was referring to. While Chris Kyle, who I had the honor to meet just prior to his death is a known factor, you are not. So, before you call someone an armchair warrior, maybe do a self-check in the mirror. There is a difference in being a combat veteran and someone who just served 8 years in the Army.
I’m in the UK and still remember when it started the news keep saying how these people where hold up in a fort, then they showed it and my first thought was “It’s not much of a fort, I’ve seen better ones made by ten year olds, it’s made from wood on match is all it’ll need!”.
That day. That single day burned deep into my soul
I knew then that D.C. would as soon kill me as look at me.
I’ve never forgotten (nor will I).
Adjust tinfoil hat: the three officers that were fired upon trying to breach the compound by automatic gunfire (from fellow officers that entered ahead of them) were reported to be former Clinton bodyguards that knew too much. Killed ATF agents were Conway Charles LeBleu, Todd McKeehan, Robert Williams, and Steven Willis.
Before the ATF allowed the FBI on site, the door which would have showed which way the fire came from disappeared… I don’t know what happened, but I know it wasn’t the official line.
They had a warrant only for David Koresh at the start. They had had the warrant for weeks if not months and most days he went jogging by himself or just a few people. Some day they even joined him in the run telling him they had just moved in next-door. The day before he went into town.They could have just picked him up at any time, but that would not have looked good on the invited TV news.
They invented the TV to film them going into this dangerous compound, but not one Ambulance, which is a little odd if it was that dangerous. The locals were filmed talking about the upcoming raid in the days before it, and the film was shown on TV after the raid, it seems everyone knew about it.
They hd the help of the military butt the only way the military can help in casrs like that is if it involves drugs, so they lied to the military about the reason they were going in and told them it was a drugs-lab.
What was seen on the Tv news was the people going into the front window and shooting into the building. What was not shown is the people going into the back window opposite the front window . The ones at the front window said they were being shot at by full-auto from submachine-guns from inside the building and returned fire on full-auto from their submachine-guns into the building. The ones at the back window said they were being shot at by full-auto from submachine-guns from inside the building and returned fire on full-auto from their submachine-guns into the building. The walls on the building were only single skin plywood.
No legal autopsies were ever done on the people who were shot dead at that time. In fact the feds raided the autopsies that were being done by Texas state Medical Examiner (forensic pathologist) and took the bodies at gunpoint. Under both the State Law and Federal law the autopsies had to be done by the State in that State. But the bodies were removed for the State illegally. The ME and the Doctors at the Hospital said the people were shot with 9mm ammunition of a type the Feds were known to use, that was never sold to the public.
There were sound recordings from inside the building and played on the news before the fire of people talking about how the first gunshots came from outside. They talked about how the bullet-holes in the right hand side of the steel front double door would show the shot the feds said came all from inside had in fact come from the outside. The doors were in plain view of reporters and TV cameras during the entire 51-day siege. Houston attorney Dick DeGuerin, who was sent by the Feds inside Mount Carmel during the siege, testified that all of the bullet holes he saw in the doors were on the right side, and all were made by incoming rounds. Sometime soon after the fire when still under federal guard and flodlight at night, someone walked onto the site and walked off with the right hand side door as a momento (This was the statement given in a press release). So they got onto the site and just walked off with a steel door around four feet wide and eight feet tall, over two hundred pounds in weight, with no one there noticing or getting it on film.
Between them the Branch Davidians were known to have had less firearms than CZ has in his basement. In fact, between them only taking the adults who by law could own fire are there, they had less than the Texas State average. The feds said that many were converted to full-auto but never backed this up by showing it in court. They showed many grenades, but as they had survived the fire they must have been inert, The Branch Davidians were known to make and sell paperweights you from inert grenades, as a way to earn money. The Texas Rangers reported that at least six items had been mislabeled and were actually 40 mm grenades or flash bang grenades from manufacturers who sold those models to the ATF or FBI exclusively.
The odds are there were illegal firearms there. Even if everything the Feds said was 100% truthful, why would this give them the right to fill a building they knew had many children in it and was lit by candles and kerosene (the Feds had cut the power off) with a gas know to be flammable then keep running a tank into it? On live TV the tank was seen to keep just driving backwards and forwards for some odd reason. It later came out that under the ground it was driving on, was a tornado shelter with people in it, including most of the children.
At a labor management conference once a professor from Cornell, Bernie Flaherty (Airborne ranger in WWII) said to us ‘…whatever you do to your opponent, they can do to you…’ I guess Timothy McVeigh proved him correct.