A while back I posted that ATFE had made it so that a person could, if so inclined, do some paperwork online rather than through the mail. I hate the ATFE with a passion and I see no reason to change that. But, I hate the idea of being in jail even more. So, I filled out the forms, paid the $200 tax each, and waited. I just got the approvals on both in email today:
Yep…..I took this guy:
And did the paperwork (and engraving) to add a Choate side-folder (sent to me by the fine like-minded guys at Choate). The results? Here you go:
The one on the left is surprisingly handy…I mean it is really handy. It’s a comfortable length, carries well, has enough barrel length to give the 9mm a little added oomph, and is just a remarkably handy size, weight, and length for any situation I can envision needing it. It just feels…perfect. The one on the right? Less utility but oodles of ‘cool factor’.
A very valid question to ask would be why not just go with the now-legal-again ‘wrist brace’ and save myself $200 and some headache? Well, a couple reasons…first, I’m already on ‘the list’ so..in for a penny, in for a pound. Second, the SBR status lets me throw a VFG on the front of the thing. And finally, I just figured that in this case I may as well skip the half-measures and just go full retard on this.
How long did the paperwork take? Let me check….49 days. I get Form 3’s back in less than a week but the Form 1’s take seven weeks, it seems. Unfortunately this isnt the end of my having to deal with the goons at ATFE. I still need to give my Uzis the same treatment. But, for now, I’m gonna enjoy taking these to the range and getting the envious looks.
It’s all most worth paying 200 to doing it online as an individual then paying another 200 later to transfer it to my trust. Have you heard anything as to whether AFT plans to let trusts go electronic?
Beats me. I took the easy-but-expensive way out and upgraded my FFL with an SOT so I could skip 90% of the headaches.
You can do electronic Form 1s at present with a trust. You just have to submit the form 23s and fingerprints for all ‘responsible persons’ in the trust at the time of submission.
Keep in mind you can have more than one trust as well. And you can add ‘responsible persons’ after the trust’s Form 1 (or Form 4, etc) has been approved without needing to notify the ATF or local CLEO, submit Form 23s or fingerprints, etc. You just need to create an amendment to the trust adding the new RP and have it notarized, then file it with your trust paperwork in your desk or safe or wherever. My credit union will do 2 notary-stampings per week for free, so it’s basically the cost of some paper and ink for the printer.
Silencer Shop offers a ‘Single Shot Trust’ for $25 which is a pretty reasonable price for a professionally drawn-up trust (they have an ‘Unlimited’ version as well for $130 where they’ll crank out as many trusts as you want). I suppose you could just White-Out the trust name on the first one and reuse the paperwork with the second and subsequent trust titles, but $130 is still a pretty reasonable price for someone else’s intellectual property.
Earnan,
Goof information! Thanks
I’d lose those clear mags…no reason to telegraph your ammo status…
The Choate HK folders REALLY makes those MP-5k types practical. Ahhnold might have done okay with them bare, but mere mortals can do good work with those stocks on board. I was told that it took a typical swat type about 7k practice rounds to get competent with the MP-5k. Frankly, the Glock18 was a better bet than a bare -5k.
This pure fudd lore. It’s telling me you’ve never actually trained or even fired any mp5 . But yet you post ignorant musings as factual because you read something or something.
The mp5 roller locks are the most tested, accepted and proven sub gun In the world. They were adopted by agencies and militaries and used for over 50 years. And yes, that includes the K variant in that fact.
The design brief for the MP-5k was for concealment. H&K had a shoulder holster rig designed for it, that hung a fair amount of the 33rnd mags on the other side, along with a short mag for carry in the weapon when worn.
For some users, the addition of the Choate didn’t add much bulk for carry, but it did add it to the body side of the weapon for right-handers. Those mags were the original straight version.
This was the first MP-5 that I shot, and the only worse stockless subgun to shoot was the .45 MAC-10 in my experience. Adding the Choate stock transformed it into my favorite subgun, with the Glock G18 machine pistol just edging it out for the select fire category.
I have time on most all the MP-5 versions, and the -SD version was probably the best general purpose, but I would prefer the muzzle mounting suppressor just for transport size advantage.
In regard to that vertical foregrip, I discovered that it is not a good choice for full auto. learned this on a Beretta 93R, where i found that it seemed to encourage/allow the gun to sweep back and forth as it rotated in the hands. Moving to a traditional two handed grip fixed that problem. I’d posit that there should only be one basically vertical grip per gun to avoid this action.
I know it’s cost prohibitive but a sear pack would make it bonerific. I’ve got a bud that has an MP5A3 with a Lafrance pack in it. Too cool
Congratulations! I have an AR-type SPR. I am hoping this “issue” with the pistol brace and the bump stocks will eliminate the need for the $200 tax.
The issue is handled. Only an she can replace a sub gun. The trend to replace them has been ongoing for years now. Most likely a carry over from GWOT, not completely unfounded either.ibowmln several of both because I see the utility of each, depending on the need. No one weapon does everything as most know. 200 bucks is nothing today and not a reason to use a brace. they flex, they aren’t solid and will not replace a proper stock. Set your weapon up how it needs to be set up for your intended use. I don’t cut corners on friends, tires or weapons, lol. Ymmv
Following. Going the “formal” atf route to have a papered, or .gov approved short barreled rifle or a stock attached pistol-like set up is a preferred route. The typical pistol type braces are or can be a clumsy or not as best of a feature and seems a shade tree mechanics attempt at being a beard boy operator. The pedigree paperwork assigned to that unit specifically (serial#-data etc) provided from our friends at the atf will add a .gov, paperwork type of certification that is akin to having a clean car title for ownership or any eventual transfers later. Extra steps and waiting times of course but advantages in many regards or scenarios. Since the Commander is in a dealer status, it is more advantagous and long view wise to use those atf provided procedures and routes for these types of set ups or configurations. When in rome, play by rome’s rules, thus staying frosty.
Why give them a penny ? Do what you want. Don’t give them legitimacy.
I long ago withdrew my consent to be governed by criminals. I have lived most of my 67 years that way. Sic Semper Tyrannis
I agree, .gov in general and the BATFE in particular don’t follow the rules so why should we?
Because they can put you in jail for a long time and you can’t!
So people like their Pets.
I’m all for people having what they want, but you could NEVER tell anyone about them, keep them in at all your own home or take them to the range. So even if you have some they don’t know, about and no one reading this would EVER do that, if you want to practice you have to have some they do know about.
A $200 tax stamp is a lot cheaper than even a bus-bench lawyer.
They don’t need anyone’s “legitimacy”: they already have the men with the guns and the armored cars and the courts and the prisons on their side.
Chances are you can ignore their rules for the rest of your life and never catch their attention. But it won’t change a thing, and there is still the very real greater-than-zero-percent chance that someone somewhere will notice your non-registered NFA item and decide to stick their nose into your business. And if they do, the cost to you is likely to be devastating.
A conviction for possession of a non-registered SBR is going to be pretty much a prosecutorial slam-dunk. “Here’s the firearm. Note the stock attached to it, note that the barrel is less than 16 inches long.” The jury — the 12 people who couldn’t figure out how to avoid getting picked to sit on a jury for $5/day — will take about 10 minutes to come back with a guilty verdict. Maybe longer if they think they can get a free meal out of the court. And now you’re a felon. For most purposes, a non-citizen. And likely with tens of thousands in legal bills to pay, a couple of years in prison to serve, and the loss of most of your assets and future income.
Right or wrong, that’s what is going to happen. Is that worth $200 to prevent?
Want to fight the ATF in a meaningful and useful way? Beat them in court like Thompson-Center did: fill out their paperwork, pay their tax, and then sue them for their tax not being valid. T-C managed to win back the freedom to go from pistol to rifle and back to pistol for all of us, and without any one getting arrested, stripped of their rights, impoverished or their dog killed.
ATF’s flip-flopping silliness over pistol braces is creating the opportunity for just such a legal defeat of part of the NFA.
Very cool guns. I share those envious glances cast at them. I would be (and am) jealous too.
I’ve been thinking about getting a PTR and doing the same thing.
I wish someone would make a mp5 clone in .40/10mm and I’d do the same you did. Those sbrs look great!
Did they come with the sight tool from PTR?
Yup. And a cheesey sling I immediately threw away. Picked up a MagPul sling with QD swivels and add a couple forend mounted QD sockets. .40/10 would be interesting but you’ll play hell trying to stock magazines without breaking the bank.
I know you don’t like them or see a use for them but for fun this and the Uzi are calling out for a binary trigger. Just make sure you’re not on any sales list!
HK – https://franklinarmory.com/shop/binary-triggers/franklin-armory-bfsiii-hk-c1-for-hk-91-93-mp5/