25 thoughts on “Standardization”

1. Standardization – as in this firearm firing this round – is really the task of groups. The military, the guard, the militia, the police, etc. should and do standardize, though I think they should standardize a bit more. The police tend to be all over the map. As for individuals, the militia (which rarely exists but should since they are a presumption of the Constitution) should standardize firearms for militia duty.

   Batteries are something else. You can standardize and prestock all you want, but none have a useful lifetime beyond a decade. I recently pulled out some CR2023 coin cells that were new in box but DOA after 10 years. Some CR123 cells at 6 years showed the voltage but couldn’t put out full current. Where feasible, battery eliminators powered by unregulated 12V sources (solar, wind, water generators) are probably the only long term solutions. Then there are electrolyitic caps drying out, sigh ….

2. Well as you point out. It means different things to different people. And place and time as well. Back when things were simple. In the days before we had a gazillion rifle and pistol calibers. People who live our lifestyle figured using the standard police and military calibers was enough. 30- 06 Springfield. 12 gauge for shotgun. 38spl and or 45ACP. And the standard for small game was a rifle capable of shooting 22 short, long and long rifle. A 410 shotgun was good for tree rats before the leaf drop was well along. Did double duty for bunnies.
   Growing up I know my uncle always carried a 22 semiauto when he ran his trap line.
   As time went by some folks always included the venerable 30-30 Winchester among the standard smoke poles. Today we have so many new calibers. Rifles in many configurations. Pistols from many makes. The new standard is for a striker fired semiauto. Rifles. Gosta have an AR of some kind.
   Today. I have 1 lever gun in 30-30. A bolt action 1903A3. A Swedish Mauser 6.5 x55. Three Yugoslavian 8mm Mausers. Nice SKS from the same county. I don’t have an AR in the bunch. Preferring the AK platform over the AR in mousegun caliber. My first S&W model 15 in 38spl. A 9mm Smith. And two eastern European semi autos in 9×18 Makarov. Plus a couple of 22 rifles. One pump and a semi auto. This is not including a few specialty pieces that I built more to my liking. My tactical shotguns are my go to shotgun for night work.
   Ammo till recently thanks to the idiot for mumbo jumbo we never had an issue. I reloaded. Even during the Reign of Lord Obama the Kenyan I still had plenty of what was needed. One thing to keep in mind. The motorized bandits on the 1930s didn’t buy their weapons. They were pillfered from police stations and national guard armories. Same thing in time of war. The European underground units had very unique ways of getting arms and ammunition. Their methods of operation bears study. Those tactics they employed are still viable today. Of course a study of the electronic security systems is also advised.
   As things change. The more in a manner of speaking, stay the same. Some folks of my acquaintance feel it is necessary to keep a compound bow and at least one crossbow in the cache. I guess this ” standardization is more in tune to the individuals point of view as well as local conditions of terrain and weather.
   But for the life of me I never thought I would see rifles in the hands of civilians that can out shoot the sniper rifles of just 20 years ago. The improvement in ballistics. Equipment materials. Hell. Just ten years back the only use for carbon fiber was in aircraft and race cars of the open wheel design. In my monthly deluge of firearms related magazines and periodicals there were some of these rifles coming in at just 4.5lbs. Amazing. So many choices. But. I always learn to use what I have at hand to determine course of action.

3. Commander:
   Thank you for filling gaps!
   Am I right in taking it that you should have basics FIRST then add in whatever you want/can afford?
   Very few of us are yet in a place where we can ignore family needs and get what we like (that way madness/ divorce lies!)
   Standardization should be both Rifle and caliber for your group.
   Batteries, comm equipment and gear too..
   This is the best site I have ever come across!

   Ceejay

4. Plus and minus for near every solution. Going with a NATO caliber should insure ammo. Having guns in a mix of calibers will help cover the bases for ‘found’ ammo.

   Come upon a stash of 7.62 x 39? Got a couple of rifles for that. .308, 30-30, .223, .270, 12ga, 20ga, check, check and check. Uncle Bob went to the big round up in the sky and had 1000 rounds of 6.5 x 55? Got one of those too.

   But the logistics of having a big pile o’ stuff may toss a wrench in the evacuation plans. If I had to leave, which I don’t plan on doing, there is no way my 1/2t pickup and small utility trailer is going to move literally tons of gear. A pallet of ammo is heavy and takes up a lot of space. So, then we would have an exercise of deciding what to leave behind.

   Taking off on foot would be even worse. Looks like it would be a .308 bolt gun and maybe a GP100 and maybe 200 rounds for both. And, since I like to eat, the sidearm would probably have to go to shed weight and make room for water and Mt. House meals. Dang, that is depressing.

5. In the mid-1990s, back when the 9mm vs .45 argument was still unresolved, I split the difference and standardized on the Glock in .40. I not only have models 22, 23 and 27, but I have a Sub 2000 that uses Glock .40 mags. I also reloaded for the .40 S&W. In other words, I was all in.

   Fast forward 25 years and I am carrying a 9mm Glock with a green dot optic. I opted for the Glock 48 so that there is no danger a .40 magazine gets loaded into a 9mm Glock or vice versa. And yes, it holds 10 rounds, but I have a +4 mag extension on the reload I carry and some of the 19 round ETS magazines in my vehicle and my EDC bag. That’s a pretty big stick.

   Would it have been better to have standardized on the 9mm in 1995? Yes, at least in hindsight. But at the time, the .40 was superior to the 9mm (and some would argue it still is/can be). The decision to shift to 9mm was also an excuse to upgrade my armory and get new pistols with optic cuts on the slide. I have now standardized on 115 gr Hornaday Critical Defense in the Glock 43X/48.

   As I age, the lighter, thinner single-ish stack Glocks are also more comfortable to carry, an unexpected bonus.

   I still have more .40S&W on hand than 9mm, but I’m working on that.

   • Yeah, I’ve fallen into the same predicament. When I started the argument was .30-06 vs 7.62. The 1911 was it for semiautos.

     I’ve got a safe with several M1 Garands, a half-dozen 1911s, and … well, lets say a few PTR-91s (chosen based on logistics, since CTD was selling brand new in the wrapper mags for a buck a piece, less in quantity). I have an M14 (not an M1A – mine was a gunsmith queen, SA couldn’t fix it, I sold it), and a couple of FALs, but the go-to was the PTR-91 and an HK-91 (the -91 cost me more than the PTR-91’s did total). As they became available cheaply, I’d buy SKS’s ($20 each? Here’s a Franklin) AKs (a little more expensive, not much), cleaned them, fired them, cleaned and stored them, bought spam cans of ammo.

     Then the AWB, and all that stupidity. Got to get some ARs (I have a papered M16A1), so I got an AR-15 Sport Target….Got a couple of mini-14s but the early versions were crap, sold those. Post AWB I started buying ARs.

     These days I buy guns because I want to shoot them. Playing with Bullpups (Tavors), and long-range precision (my wife bought me a Barrett for my 50th, it’s got lots of slam but less precision) so I’ve got a .375 CheyTac, and will get a .416 Barrett this year, as well as a 6.5 Creedmore, and a .338 Lapua. I can shoot well enough for minute of bad guy at amazing ranges – approaching a mile. But sniping isn’t about the shooting, it’s about the sneak in and more importantly sneak out.

     And I think my kids know what to do with it all

6. Commander:
   I think I recalled you mentioning that your domicile is run on propane, as mine.
   I bought an EU2000 as backup awhile ago and found two weaknesses, it uses gas and has a short runtime on a tank.
   I converted to propane and eliminated both those weaknesses, a 1,000 tank and a couple portable tanks insures that it will always start and run clean.

7. “Batteries are a great example… For me, its AA and D batts. That’s it.”

   I would suggest you evaluate the possibility of acquiring some of the AA-to-D carriers/adapters. You obviously won’t get the same runtime with the AAs as you will with Ds but it does give you an option. I see far more AA batteries out there than D cells in my neck of the woods.

8. i’ve went all in on 556 and a few others but i’ve hedged my bets having a gun or two in other calibers. say for instance its day 237 and you’re scavenging local country stores or abandoned farms. surely somebody has hit those before, took all the normie stuff, left the rest. that’s where i come in. just a train of thought. no, i don’t stock oddball stuff in depth, just a box or ten.

9. Regarding ‘standardization’, apply this logic to scopes that don’t require a battery. For me, Trijicon ACOG TA31s and Accupoint 1×6 optics fill this requirement along with other high quality optics with etched reticles that will function when the batteries run out.

10. In my early stages of building my armory I passed on an M1 carbine because I didn’t want to stock another caliber. I purchased a Ruger Mini 30 instead of a Mini 14 because I already had an SKS and a stock of 7.62×39. Now, my armory looks very different. I have the guns that I had initially avoided, and ammo in the required calibers. Now my problem is I have no one to leave my guns and ammo.

    • I’ve thought about what to do with my collection as I didn’t have any kids (I’ve inherited step-kids but time will tell if they will value the collection). A possible solution is to donate some of it to either a charity auction that you support or some could go to Project Appleseed or similar.

      A few may get cached as a treasure chest for someone in the distant future just for the fun of it. PVC, vac seal bags plus manuals etc.

      Steelheart

11. I hadn’t considered there were so many ways to standardize your stash. I always considered ‘ammunition common’ was the goal. As long as the extras don’t require exotic ammunition, I see some positives from having ammunition that does not fit your own. Opens up the doors with some barters for certain.

    For example, I have a sweet little Savage 99T carbine in .250 Savage. Not a lot of that around at this time. It sure prevents me from practicing as much as I want to with the meager amount I still have. I have other rifles I can use, but that particular rifle has a lot of good memories and I am missing out taking it out hunting like it deserves.

    • If you are going to keep the rifle, then maybe get the reloading dies and a small press, they will pay for themselves in no time.

      I had Savage 99’s in 22 HP and 300 Savage. Sold them off due to the lack of ammo and brass (even though I do reload), the rifles are getting good prices these days, and got the same model in .243 and .308, nice guns.

      • Very true sir. I have a Savage 99A in .308 Winchester that has receiver sight and no scope. Fine gun.

        Savage 99s do bring in a good price, but that .250 has been ‘rode hard and put up wet’ as a goat herd predator rifle and later Colorado hunting guide back-up rifle. Scratched up stock with a fine hair line crack (stabilized). 4x Pecar (1960’s scope) on a late 1930’s era rifle. A collector probably would not be interested in it – too beat up.

        In about 14 years (1937), it will be a 100 ! I hope I’m still around to help blow out the candles. :^)

12. I totally agree that standardization is the ideal way to go in a group. .22, 9 mm, .556/.223, .308, and 12-gauge are the foundation of my arms battery, although I have many guns that are in different calibers.

    The problem in implementing this approach is that, unless a group’s firearms choices are built from the ground up, many members will come with guns that do not fit the standard and, unless the group mandates rigid adherence to the standards, trying to enforce the standard will be impossible.

    Try explaining to Jack’s wife, a diminutive “little lady,” that she is just going to have to get use to shooting a 12-gauge pump, not the 20-gauge semi-auto she has learned to shoot fairly well for ten years. Try telling Uncle Fred that he should get rid of his 30.06 ammo and his obsolete, but beloved M1 Garand or 1911 .45 AARP in order to adopt that new-fangled AR-15 and Glock 19, “those danged plastic guns.” (As an aside, I was in a gun store a dozen years ago when a salesman handed a Glock 19 to a “newbie.” The newbie said, “Isn’t this a plastic pistol?” The salesman responded, “That isn’t plastic. It’s weapons-grade polymer.” The newbie replied, “O-h-h-h!” Problem solved.)

    When issues like this come up, if peer-pressure won’t produce change, the group will have to decide how important uniformity must be if it comes down to losing a valuable member of the group.

    BTW, I have read several times over the years on blogs that everyone should use ammo in the same caliber used by their local police departments. Really? Will the cops be giving ammo away? They sure won’t be selling it. And just how much ammo is a local police force going to have on hand anyway when the balloon goes up?

    • “Really? Will the cops be giving ammo away? They sure won’t be selling it. And just how much ammo is a local police force going to have on hand anyway when the balloon goes up”

      If the balloon goes up, as you say, the cops suddenly transition from public servants to one of the best tactically organized gangs around. When their kids are hungry, dad is just as likely to trade a box of .40 as you or I. But, even if it doesn’t go in that direction, I don’t believe the people who recommend the same calibers as the local police are planning on getting handouts of ammo from the cops as much as they are planning on taking the ammo from the cops. Hurricane Katrina and a host of other ‘mostly peaceful’ BLM riots have shown plenty of abandoned police cars that are a somewhat decent resupply point for the resourceful. As for how much ammo the PD keeps on hand…most give their officers a set amount of ammo per month for practice…my local PD gives each badge a hundred rounds per month…that means that on any given month the local PD has around 8000 rounds of pistol ammo sitting around. Probably more. And that doesn’t include the stash of duty ammo rather than practice ammo.

      • CZ,
        It’s hard for me to imagine a WROL situation where the cops desert their patrol cars and leave weapons and ammo in it.

        It is also hard to imagine that law enforcement will place a “Closed for Business” sign in the window and walk away from thousands of rounds of ammunition that looters will likely seize.

        I have no idea what the population of your county is. While 8,000 pistol rounds is an excellent stash for a Self-Reliant
        Individual (in fact, for most it’s an enviable amount) but spread out over the pistol-owning residents of your county, I have to think that it falls into the “meh” category.

        Since WROL may very well be “come as you are,” the far better choice is to already own all the ammunition you would ever need. That will be far “healthier” choice than trying to seize someone else’s stash.

        Longevity IS all that it is cracked up to be.

        • you don’t have to imagine it, look up how the cops acted during the Katrina hurricane. They abandoned their posts, their cars, weapons and ammo, their communities and each other. Then they fired upon the firefighters trying to help.

          • Jimbo, I’ll be needing some documentation about the weapons and ammo.

      • I’m in a town of a couple thousand people and there were times in the last few years that I had more ammo available than the PD did.

        Police departments can run into supply issues just like anyone else. It can be worse for them if they’re locked into supply contracts.

        Having ammo in local LE calibers could be handy IF you wish to support them with donations to keep them functional. Yes, this could be a big IF depending on the culture of your local area.

        Steelheart

    • Just because some family members don’t want to shift their primary doesn’t mean you can’t allocate some of your extra items for their use if/when the wheels completely come off. A basic used G19 & AR15 that have been reliability tested before being tucked away could cover them easily. If someone understands the basics (1911, M1 etc.) you can teach them how to run something else.

      If they have chosen to not learn, well, then they may or may not have something allocated. For me, if someone has chosen not to prep, not to learn how to handle firearms etc., the best they’ll likely be able to borrow is a Heritage Rough Rider or similar.

      Steelheart

    • History shows us that in troubled times the police and military are the only likely sources of ammunition. Either by theft/capture, or by blackmarket sales. Police selling ammo under the table is commonplace around the world.

13. I have 4 pistols I can swap barrels and mags on and cover .40 S&W, 357 SIG and, 9mm. There are rifles you can do this with but, they get pretty spendy. I have a Savage 24C in 22lr/20ga. Inserts for the 20ga are available and would certainly add versatility. I have 38/357 revolvers. I’m up to 7 calibers here without even getting to the ARs. Keeping calibers in check is hard. The oddballs are usually expensive and that is self-limiting. I’ve gone deep on the common stuff. Anyone who hasn’t will be in for a rude awakening when the Dems steal the election next year.

14. Excellent thoughts about ‘Standardization’ here. IMO, the Root of Standardization is the Ammo – yes, different Guns need different Magazines, but unless you are “Operating” in a Group, Weapon Standardization is a secondary consideration.
    7.62, 5,56 and 9 MM should be Piled High and Deep by Everyone. They will also be the most common Calibers available by ‘scrounging’ and Battlefield Pickup. 45 ACP, and .38 for Wheelguns are also good choices.

    I have those, and the ‘oddballs’ are a 1909 7.65 ‘Argentine’ Mauser, and a 1915 Westinghouse-Nagant 7.62R. Both were “New Surplus”, and never issued to Grunts. 7.62R is easy to find, the 7.65 not so much.

    Of course, .22LR is the ultimate, default Caliber, and Everyone should have over 10k Rounds and something that will Shoot it.

Comments are closed.