JAKL and AR-180

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So I’ve been kinda experimenting with the AR-180 and Palmetto JAKL. Both are AR-type guns that utilize a different gas system than the usual AR-15. In addition to the different gas system, they also both incorporate a recoil assembly system that allows for a folding stock, unlike the AR-15 which requires a buffer tube in the stock.

Why the interest in this sort of thing when the AR-15 is the undisputed king of .223 carbines these days? (And by king, I mean most prolific and ubiquitous, not necessarily ‘best’.)

Well, I’ve always had an interest in guns that were compact. The Ruger A-Team Special, the HK93A3, the Daewoo K series, side- and underfolder AK’s, etc, etc. But when it comes to logistics, there is absolutely no intelligent dissent that the AR series is the most easy-to-feed carbine.

The original AR-180 used proprietary mags, scope mount, and a bunch of other features. From a logistics standpoint it was suboptimal. The JAKL was built from the ground up to have a large amount of commonality with the AR…in fact, other than a minor tweak to the bolt release, the JAKL uses a completely bog-standard AR lower…thus, your supply of AR lower parts is completely useful. The Brownells AR180B also uses, with zero mods, a stock AR lower.

The JAKL uses a forward mounted non-reciprocating charging handle on the left side of the gun. I like this much better than the right-side reciprocating bolt-mounted handle on the AR180B. I find it handy since I’m right handed..I can hold the gun in my right hand, swap a mag and charge wth my left hand.

Both guns, though having different operating systems, have a tendency to heat up the handguards. My experience is that youre going to really want a vertical foregrip. Both guns, since they dont use a buffer tube, have a pic rail at the back of the receiver so you can mount whatever 1913-compatible stock you may want. On the AR-180B I purchased a original-style sidefolder from Midwest Industries, and for the JAKL, I rather really like the JMAC side folder skeleton stocks. The JMAC aren’t cheap, but they appear to be exceptionally well made and solid.

Functionally, both should, in theory, have an advantage over the AR-15 in terms of reliability due to the gas systems of the 180 and JAKL not venting gases into the receiver. Although, to be fair, if you fire enough .223 in one session to gum up your AR you probably have a much bigger problem on your hand. But, on the other hand, a system that can be indifferent to the occasional benign neglect is always nice. You don’t always have time to detail clean your gun at the end of the day.

For my needs, a compact .223 carbine is what I want to tuck away in the truck. A full size M4-style is compact but not as compact as a gun that doesnt have 9″ of buffer tube hanging out the back.

Both guns, by the way , are a good bit more money than your average mid-tier AR. This is what happens when you haven’t achieved sales figures to get you into the economies-of-scale territory.

Depending on how the ‘arm brace’ thing goes, one of the JAKL pistols with an arm brace would be a super sweet and compact package…not to far from the SIG Rattler. A specialty gun, to be sure, but when you have that one-out-ten occasion when its exactly what the doctor ordered…..well, it’ll be handy.

Further updates on both of these platforms as warranted.

12 thoughts on “JAKL and AR-180”

  1. CZ, have you tried a LAW folder? I have an AR equipped with one. Aside from not being able to shoot with it folded, I’m quite happy with it. I understand there is now a bolt that will work with it folded but, I haven’t looked into it.

    • Being able to fire the rifle with the stock folded is important to me. Im very familiar with the LAW folder, as well as the aftermarket bolt that is being marketed these days. But theyre both add-ons to a pre-existing system which means that there has to have been some compromises and limitations in it’s development and usage. The two guns I mentioned were built from the ground up to be able to have folding stocks as well as be able to be fired with those stocks folded. Admittedly, the need to fire a carbine with its stock folded is slight (in a vehicle, hallway, crowded environ), it doesnt hurt to have that ability over a gun that doesnt.

  2. Following. Your comparison descriptions of these two models has me more inclined towards the jakyl rather than the 180. Ergonomic controls for a right hander being the case. The collapsible stock, or the brace resolution for pistol variant would be more of an attribute or sales point to me than a different operating system to counter a more dirty ar15 action. Fwiw the marines have me over programmed for weapon cleanliness habits. Things are in an advanced surveillance state everywhere with spicy criminal activities rampant out there, so being able to have a folded up tool under a big coat or in a gym bag is appropriate. Keep up the good reporting.

    Stay folded up and frosty.

    • Nope, but one big detraction I can see right up front is that it isnt using common-as-dirt AR lowers like the JAKL and BRN-180. This isnt necessarily a dealbreaker, but it makes the logistics support issue a bigger deal than it would be for the other guns.

    • I can only go on my personal experience. I took a carbine course, ran about 400 rounds of PMC through Bushy A2 before it started getting sluggish. I pulled the bolt, wiped it down, lubed it up, and kept going. Maybe Tam has a better grade of gun lube than I do, maybe she was shooting cleaner ammo, beats me. But I can only talk about my experience, with my gun, on that particular day. As always your mileage may vary. But even if it was an outlier of an experience, its proved, to me, that there was a greater-than-zero chance that after about 400 rounds things might get sticky. So..I formed my own opinion based on the data I experienced. I freely admit, Tam has done more gun classes than me so perhaps her experiences are different than mine. I can only speak to my own.

      Interestingly, Tam has a history of doing the 2,000-rd pistol tests. I’d be curious to have her do the same sort of test but with an AR instead under the same conditions…clean it once, and shoot 2000 rounds of various ammo out of it. It’s an expensive project but, for the sake of science, I’d kick in 1000 rounds of factory ammo if she’s willing to to kick in another case of ammo to make two thousand rounds and perform. Or perhaps she’s already done this somewhere in her past and I missed it on her blog. But, if I’m indeed guilty of spewing Fuddlore then perhaps its time to do another test and bring the light to the new generation of unenlightened.

  5. Bushmaster really isn’t a great grade of a gun. I’ve run Colts and Bravo Company ARs in classes with just lubrication and 1000-1500 rounds between cleanings. It also helps to use decent ammo. I kept the gun heavily lubed and averaged anywhere from no malfunctions to one or two malfunctions every 1000-1500 rounds. In one case it was a Magpul Dynamics class and I realized that one of my aluminum magazines was bad. Another case it was a Trident concepts class and had a stovepipe out of nowhere.

    Here is an article about a Bravo Company AR that ran over 30,000 rounds with just lubrication added and some minor field cleanings:

    https://bravocompanyusa.com/content/Filthy%2014%20bravo_swat_10.pdf

    • Bushamster nowadays isnt what it used to be. Most of my Bushy’s are from the early ’90s when they were a better build.

      • Bushmaster never was all that. We just didn’t know as much.

        Remember how we used to tell people on gun forums back in the late Nineties and early Aughties to “stick to the ABCD’s”? (For Armalite, Bushhamster, Colt, and DPMS.)

        Out of those, only Colt is any good, it turned out.

        A lot of water has gone under the carbine knowledge bridge since 2001.

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