So, while some opportunistic Ferengi at the gun show was trying to get $110 for a brick of small pistol primers, it appears that even at dealer prices its around $.07 for primers. Lets run some numbers:
- Primer = $.07
- Jacketed bullet = $.13
- New brass = $.15
- Powder = $.02
Thats about $.37 per round to reload a simple 115 gr FMJ 9mm. Now, to be fair, if I use once-fired brass the price drops to $0.22 each. But, here’s the thing, I can buy factory ammo at about $.24/round.
It’s hit the point where it is literally cheaper to buy factory ammo than to reload your own. And that isn’t because the price of factory ammo has come down, but rather because the individual components for reloading (esp primers) has gotten so ridiculous.
Well, if its a case of pay me now or pay me later…I guess I’ll just buy factory ammo for now and spare myself the work.
There’s a reason to stockpile things, especially consumables, in large quantity and this is a good example of why.
the math on the 50 bmg would be interesting, especially after factoring in in the press, dies, etc. The break even over/under might be too far out!
Factory BMG is north of $6-8 per round. I can get bullets for $1, brass for $1, Primer for $1, and powder is probably about the same. Figure materials (or materiel, I suppose) cost is about $4 per round. Spread the $1000 for an RCBS .50 package over, say, 250 rounds of ammo, and youre at $8 a round. SO, if youre planning on shooting at least 250 rounds it makes sense to reload. But thats just back-of-the-napkin math.
Lucky gunner is at $3.68/rd, but that’s not shipping, tax, undercoating, dealer prep, etc. Maybe catch some with a free shipping promotion.
https://www.luckygunner.com/50cal-bmg-660-grain-fmjbt-200-rounds
Your 9mm math is spot on, CZ, but any factory ammo costing under 50 cents a round is gonna be FMJ range fodder. So, if you want to stock up on SD ammo with HST bullets, Gold Dots, XTPs or anything similar, reloading still makes financial sense. Aside from the economics, with rule of law collapsing on an exponential curve, I will NOT be without ammo components and the means to assemble them.
Obviously ammo in common calibers will someday become great for barter. I’m pretty good at dickering currently, but in a collapse scenario you absolutely wouldn’t want anyone but your immediate survival group knowing that you can reload. I’ve searched the archives but not been able to find articles about how to barter ammunition regularly while still maintaining OPSEC. If anyone knows of good books or websites on this topic, I’d appreciate referrals.
I remember Selco writing about this thing for anything valuable. When you get ready to trade or barter something, it’s never “I have X” it’s “I know a guy who can get X” to conceal that you have it and then you conduct yourself as though you’re getting the items from another guy.
It is a notion of trust factor that limits anyone from actively or successfully selling or bartering one’s own “handloads” during a current stand up type of economy. Most Goobers are tepid about using non corporate ammo in their precious guns. As a gun store/range operative I have seen guns blown out even from so called factory ammo. 45 acp are easily double charged, an crack up, f.w.i.w. 9mm just burp it rudely but don’t destruct. Once a collapsed out crashed society and economy arrives, then the market will giddily accept any forms of ammo. The circle for bartering in general will be small any way amongst trusted frens, so there will then be openings under those circumstances to do deals. Be a pro with proper packaged and detailed labeling of components and dates to have presentable tableware at the upcoming barter faires. Stay capitalistic and frosty.
the spooks mention capturing enemy ammo in Vietnam and putting C4 in some of the cartridges then returning it to the storage site. If someone used it, the bolt of their SKS rifle would blow back through their head. After the rest of the VC saw what happened they would abandon all the ammo. I can see someone purposely doing similar to put a wrench in the gears. I never buy reloads or use any other than my own.
+1
There was an article similar to this some years ago. The person had bought a one pound jug of powder at a gun show.
For some reason he became suspicious of it so he poured it out in a line on the counter. There were three clearly different powders in strata in the can. Someone had obviously taken some near empty cans and combined them into one can and sold it as new.
I don’t buy any powder/primers/cartridges from anyone unless they are factory fresh AND I can for sure find them later, i.e. they’re an esstablish business concern with a good track record. It just doesn’t pay to do otherwise.
Matt
Not how that works at all.C4 does not detonate from a primer
If half the powder was removed and the C4 topped it off with just enough room to replace the bullet, I would not want to pull that trigger.
Good point on the JHP 9mm. I was going to make that point myself. Factory in that recipe still gets over .85-1.00 round depending on manufacturer. Although PSA had a promo for Sierra 124 gr JHP at 6.99/ box of 20. That’s a pretty good deal for factory JHP.
Reloading bulk type 9mm FMJ or 5.56 has usually failed the economics test.
Not before primers went haywire in price it didn’t. Only the Russian steel cased stuff, pre Covid, made it debatable. Now that stuff is almost as much as brass cased PPU or even PMC.
Reloader anon here, concur with math considerations. It is also a time factor involved in logistics planning. One would be best served by just bulk order up over time a sufficient comfort level of ammo to have that in inventory first. If not already stocked for the Apoc now, get that ordered in now while times are gravy like, pay on some credit if necessary. Later on if things are stable then apply self to reloading ventures. It is also a long logistics train to accumulate the loader and all supplies necessary to start stamping out rounds in quantity to justify the cost investments. Handgun hollowpoint bullet components can be obtained to reload some bulk amount batches of defensive usage type of rounds for your inventory as well. Use the factory loaded versions for every day carry outside your wire if that makes you comfortable. My beautiful blue Dillon progressive press is a workhorse that cranked out over 10k handgun and rifle rounds over the years. It is in rest mode now, as there are many other preps needing attention and funds beyond “muh ammo” in the current state of affairs. Stay stocked and frosty.
It’s funny as I was explaining just this bit of reloading economics to another shooter the other day. This situation has spelled the doom of IDPA shooting in the ATL south metro area, and at this expensive rate, SASS (I’m a life member) and other cowboy-related shooting sports are for those with lots of stockpiled reloading components and/or money. How’d you like to try reloading .44-40, .38-40, .32-20, .38 short Colt or .45 Colt from a standing start right now or in the future? Look at the cost of loading .45-70, too.
Add to this the fact that the average shooter can no longer go to Walmart for anything that will chamber in a handgun other than .22 or .410 and it’s easy to see why casual shooting or target practice has come to a screeching halt. GF
The private outdoor range I am a member of has never been busier. Now most people are doing defensive-type pistol and carbine shooting, midrange rifle, and so on. Still plenty of sport-type activity, but the “defensive” type activity has really picked up. Never seen it like this before. Constant activity on weekends, and many weekdays after work hours. 9mm and 5.56 brass everywhere. Empty boxes of Federal .308 and 6.5 CM match in the trash cans. Like 6 or 8 empty boxes in the trash on the midrange range. People sighting rifles, practicing, checking zeroes. How do I know what they’re doing? I ask them.
Reloading isn’t supposed to be about saving money, it’s about manufacturing a round that is designed for your particular chamber and barrel. By adjusting your powder weights, bullet styles, seating depths and weigthing / segregating brass, you can create a round that is superior to anything coming from the commercial and military plants. There’s a reason why the winning precision shooters all reload.
That is true in the current situation. What about sweeping bans on factory ammo? Then what? This discussion isn’t about boutique loads, lovingly developed. It’s about keeping your guns fed in a drought.
No “drought” possible on my end because my reloading supplies are only used for creating match ammo. I took advantage of the ‘salad days’ in ammo many years ago to avoid any possible supply chain / ban issues.
In your fantasy scenario where they ban factory ammo you think they will still allow all the components to roll your own to be sold? Interesting. My point was for every round you buy MATERIAL to make I buy a COMPLETE round….LOTs and LOTs of complete rounds that as you say will keep my guns fed in a drought. I’ve lived through enough panics to buy when things are good, the same goes for magazines, I have triple digit numbers on magazines for guns I plan to count on and I’m still adding.
I’ve been saying this for years. People will say “I stocked up on parts to reload 10,000 rounds of 9mm” and I’m like “Cool, I just went out and bought 10,000 rounds of 9mm.” Re-loading is a fun hobby not meant to save money…unless you are into obscure calibers or really into specific loads for specific applications like long range shooting. That’s fine but don’t pretend it’s to prep or save money especially when most people that say they have all the parts don’t actually have the powder or the primers that are just as hard if not harder to get when ammo shortages hit.
Also, can we all stop lying about ammo prices? Every forum you go on and post something very reasonable like you said “right now I can buy 9mm for $0.24 a round” someone has to chime in what a rip off that is and how they can buy 9mm for $0.02 a round and it comes with a happy ending. Just stop people.
Shotguns too.
I had tried reloading back in the ’90s and found out quick that it didn’t ‘Pay’ to reload for Plinking/Target Shooting, and I never moved into the Benchrest scene, where Loading for your individual Gun matters. From a Survivalist standpoint, let’s take that Guy who has the Gear and stockpiled 10-20k + Components. In a real ‘Mad Max’ situation, when is he going to find the time to sit and Load them?
I sold my Reloading Gear a couple of Years ago to a Friend who has some Odd Calibers, and then I spent the $700 he gave me on some Green Tips.
IMO, the ultimate “Survivalist” Guns are going to be Flintlock Muzzleloaders, since they are the only type of Weapon that ALL ammo components can be scrounged from local materials, with no ‘Factory Input.’
I just got a summer catalog from Natchez. A thousand round case of Blazer 9mm 115 fmj is at $269.99.
From the adds I get from AIM and Classic Firearms. The prices on the common calibers is coming down.
Sam at sgammo has a nice selection for less, shipping included. Excellent customer service.
I would be wary of buying Blazer ammo, especially their Blazer Brass line.
About a decade ago, a friend bought a pallet load of .45acp Blazer Brass. The first use was us going to a 4 day class, where the expected use was ~1000 rounds each. My short barreled Colt with a 24 lb recoil spring will feed anything that fits in the mag. His govt model choked constantly.
Eventually, I discovered he was standing in a pile of cast off rounds that had the bullet shoved into the brass, with a dent in the tip where it jammed on the barrel ramp. Seems that Blazer hadn’t tempered the brass, so the grip on the bullet was very poor. The impact of the bullet nose on a feed ramp would shove the bullet into the case, robbing the slide of the energy needed to finish chambering.
My gun would shove the bullet into the case, but still chamber it. However, the variable bullet seating depth caused a pronounced variation of pressure when fired, so I had a severe vertical stringing effect on the targets. Lucky I didn’t grenade the gun. He had a similar problem, which resulted in us having trouble with accuracy in our testing in the class.
So, one would think a reputable ammo factory would be concerned
with this situation. Remember, he bought a PALLET load, all from the same batch/lot, IIRC. Their response?
They told him to piss off.
Wow. It seems like a lot of the smaller, less-reputable ammo companies have that attitude.
My experience with Blazer only took one box of their crappy aluminum-cased 10mm. Most of that box still waits for me to give it to someone I’ll never see again.
Buying new makes sense for now. And think of all the extra once fire brass youll have when it is cheaper to reload.
https://ammosquared.com/
Wow, that’s kind of like saying I believe in stocking precious metals for a financial collapse and just buy silver ETFs. If you can’t physically touch it, you don’t own it!
Doing your own budgeting and storing of ammo isn’t really hard nor is it a burdensome chore. Why would you pay a company to do it for you?
You gotta realize that the “napkin math” was done with just about the cheapest available centerline round out there. I can reload 5.56 for cheaper than factory ammo currently. I wait for sales and buy components in bulk. You won’t find everything at once and at the same place. But if you keep your eyes open, you can take advantage of some good sales out there. Just as an example, I found WC-844 powder on sale for $18 per pound shipped to my door. Is that the cheapest it’s ever been? No, but stocking it away for when I need it at that price is better than money in the bank.
And remember that today’s current prices of ammo won’t stay the same. Wait for the next panic and that cheap 9mm factory ammo you use in your calculation will double in price. I’ll still be sitting on all my components I slowly bought for cheap and stocked away for a rainy day.
My point being – the case for reloading isn’t dead. Just make sure you have all of your reloading information in writing in case the power is down or the internet is brought offline. And any reloaders out there – sign up for the sales mailing list for American Reloading. You can thank me later!
The world runs on math, and when it stops working they’ll just change the metrics and recalculate.
Having expended my wisdom, I have plenty of factory ammo for a while. And a fair supply of components to keep me safe later. My reloading is primarily to establish routines and perfect my loads, then put that info in my list so I can quickly get to work with something I know works if I ever get to that point.
Believe it or not, I just picked up two thousand Remington small rifle primers from the local Bi-Mart for $36.99 / 1000. Patience my friends…. patience.
If they have more, get them all for me.
/swansonmode
Ammo is a topic I’ve struggled with for years. I do not reload. I subscribed to the “P for Plenty” philosophy, focusing on value buys vs superior characteristics.
Now I’d like to shift philosophy to “P for Precision.” Is it really worth it to hand-load, or just invest some quality time with the various HQ factory loads to find what works best?
One size does not fit all. Factory ammo that workds great in Bill’s Rem 700 may not work great in your particular 700. Each gun is its own peculiar animal. You could try a box of every load out there but economically thats pretty intensive. Once you have the gear and components to load for your rifle, youve already established a logistics base for doing the same for your other guns. So, I would say reloading is a good choice.